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	<title>Comments on: Internet Censorship in Ireland</title>
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	<link>http://www.xlml.com/aehso/2009/02/23/internet-censorship-in-ireland/</link>
	<description>John O'Shea's musings, observations and opinions on anything and everything.</description>
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		<title>By: aehso</title>
		<link>http://www.xlml.com/aehso/2009/02/23/internet-censorship-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-346000</link>
		<dc:creator>aehso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xlml.com/aehso/?p=494#comment-346000</guid>
		<description>Fergus,

Censoring/filtering via intermediate networks is a sledgehammer approach to the problem that infringes on far too many other civil rights to be in any way justifiable.  

Let me proffer an analogy: this is akin to a national airport being told to refuse planes to/from certain foreign cities just because some travellers coming off these planes in the past had not declared goods or had drugs in their pockets.  Except of course this is worse - this is a private organization calling the shots, not our elected government.  Crazy.  

Btw, have you read the letter sent to Michele Neylon (of Blacknight, an ISP, not a broadband service provider)?  See http://blog.blacknight.com/irma-threatens-irish-isps.html

I&#039;d be interested to hear your thoughts on what their overall strategy is here. Is it a &#039;threaten everyone in the internet business and see what sticks&#039; strategy?  Is this the global industry attacking Ireland as a test bed because they know our legislative/judiciary processes are out of date and hence a soft touch compared to our European neighbours?  Or is it just pure greed on behalf of a local association?  Does this law firm understand the nature of the technology infrastructure that they are threatening?

The victims of copyright infringement should target the sources of the infringement, not intermediates, be they ISPs or hosting providers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fergus,</p>
<p>Censoring/filtering via intermediate networks is a sledgehammer approach to the problem that infringes on far too many other civil rights to be in any way justifiable.  </p>
<p>Let me proffer an analogy: this is akin to a national airport being told to refuse planes to/from certain foreign cities just because some travellers coming off these planes in the past had not declared goods or had drugs in their pockets.  Except of course this is worse &#8211; this is a private organization calling the shots, not our elected government.  Crazy.  </p>
<p>Btw, have you read the letter sent to Michele Neylon (of Blacknight, an ISP, not a broadband service provider)?  See <a href="http://blog.blacknight.com/irma-threatens-irish-isps.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.blacknight.com/irma-threatens-irish-isps.html</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d be interested to hear your thoughts on what their overall strategy is here. Is it a &#8216;threaten everyone in the internet business and see what sticks&#8217; strategy?  Is this the global industry attacking Ireland as a test bed because they know our legislative/judiciary processes are out of date and hence a soft touch compared to our European neighbours?  Or is it just pure greed on behalf of a local association?  Does this law firm understand the nature of the technology infrastructure that they are threatening?</p>
<p>The victims of copyright infringement should target the sources of the infringement, not intermediates, be they ISPs or hosting providers.</p>
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		<title>By: Irish Censorship &#124; Life in Ireland</title>
		<link>http://www.xlml.com/aehso/2009/02/23/internet-censorship-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-345960</link>
		<dc:creator>Irish Censorship &#124; Life in Ireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xlml.com/aehso/?p=494#comment-345960</guid>
		<description>[...] was going to rant about this stupid state of affairs but on this Irish Internet censorship post at Aehso&#8217;s all has been said already: Irish government, you should be absolutely ashamed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was going to rant about this stupid state of affairs but on this Irish Internet censorship post at Aehso&#8217;s all has been said already: Irish government, you should be absolutely ashamed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fergus O'Rourke</title>
		<link>http://www.xlml.com/aehso/2009/02/23/internet-censorship-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-345919</link>
		<dc:creator>Fergus O'Rourke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 06:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xlml.com/aehso/?p=494#comment-345919</guid>
		<description>If affected parties cannot be bothered to oppose, then things *will* happen. How do you suggest that victims of copyright infringement should react, if not by legal action ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If affected parties cannot be bothered to oppose, then things *will* happen. How do you suggest that victims of copyright infringement should react, if not by legal action ?</p>
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		<title>By: aehso</title>
		<link>http://www.xlml.com/aehso/2009/02/23/internet-censorship-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-345212</link>
		<dc:creator>aehso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xlml.com/aehso/?p=494#comment-345212</guid>
		<description>As you say Fergus, lawyers required and the website in question may not be bothered to oppose when they would only loose a fraction of 4m readers.  The end result is still the same, a private industry association is effecting censorship via bad laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you say Fergus, lawyers required and the website in question may not be bothered to oppose when they would only loose a fraction of 4m readers.  The end result is still the same, a private industry association is effecting censorship via bad laws.</p>
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		<title>By: Fergus O'Rourke</title>
		<link>http://www.xlml.com/aehso/2009/02/23/internet-censorship-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-345094</link>
		<dc:creator>Fergus O'Rourke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xlml.com/aehso/?p=494#comment-345094</guid>
		<description>It is not really a question of going &quot;directly to the high court to request censorship of information.&quot; IRMA would be seeking to prevent people stealing others&#039; intellectual property. If they went straight to court without notice, they might not get their costs even if otherwise successful.

Opposition would probably result in a trial, in which IRMA would seek to prove that the website was naughty and the website owner would seek to show it was not. Use of lawyers advised. Not cheap.

Obviously, the further away the website owner would be, the more difficult and/or unlikely s/he might be to bother to resist, but the right to do so would be exactly the same as an Irish-based owner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not really a question of going &#8220;directly to the high court to request censorship of information.&#8221; IRMA would be seeking to prevent people stealing others&#8217; intellectual property. If they went straight to court without notice, they might not get their costs even if otherwise successful.</p>
<p>Opposition would probably result in a trial, in which IRMA would seek to prove that the website was naughty and the website owner would seek to show it was not. Use of lawyers advised. Not cheap.</p>
<p>Obviously, the further away the website owner would be, the more difficult and/or unlikely s/he might be to bother to resist, but the right to do so would be exactly the same as an Irish-based owner.</p>
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		<title>By: aehso</title>
		<link>http://www.xlml.com/aehso/2009/02/23/internet-censorship-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-345073</link>
		<dc:creator>aehso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xlml.com/aehso/?p=494#comment-345073</guid>
		<description>@fergus on the ball as ever, thanks for clarifying.  I wonder why the Eircom peon said otherwise.  Regardless, I still have a problem with any mechanism that entitles a private association to go directly to the high court to request censorship of information.

Do you have any pointers on what process websites have to go through to oppose a request?  Would it be prohibitively expensive and does this process accommodate websites that have no base on Ireland (or say the EU?)

@simon Digital Rights Ireland looks vaguely interesting but whoever runs it needs to be a bit more transparent about who they are, their charter etc before I&#039;d consider supporting them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fergus on the ball as ever, thanks for clarifying.  I wonder why the Eircom peon said otherwise.  Regardless, I still have a problem with any mechanism that entitles a private association to go directly to the high court to request censorship of information.</p>
<p>Do you have any pointers on what process websites have to go through to oppose a request?  Would it be prohibitively expensive and does this process accommodate websites that have no base on Ireland (or say the EU?)</p>
<p>@simon Digital Rights Ireland looks vaguely interesting but whoever runs it needs to be a bit more transparent about who they are, their charter etc before I&#8217;d consider supporting them.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.xlml.com/aehso/2009/02/23/internet-censorship-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-345049</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xlml.com/aehso/?p=494#comment-345049</guid>
		<description>Head over to www.digitalrights.ie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Head over to <a href="http://www.digitalrights.ie" rel="nofollow">http://www.digitalrights.ie</a></p>
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		<title>By: Conrad</title>
		<link>http://www.xlml.com/aehso/2009/02/23/internet-censorship-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-345036</link>
		<dc:creator>Conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 08:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xlml.com/aehso/?p=494#comment-345036</guid>
		<description>During the voting machines debacle, An Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern proclaimed that the governement were ploughing ahead with their plan as Ireland was the laughing stock of Europe because we were still casting votes manually.

Then, as now, they demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of the modern world.  Ivory towers and all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During the voting machines debacle, An Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern proclaimed that the governement were ploughing ahead with their plan as Ireland was the laughing stock of Europe because we were still casting votes manually.</p>
<p>Then, as now, they demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of the modern world.  Ivory towers and all that.</p>
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		<title>By: Fergus O'Rourke</title>
		<link>http://www.xlml.com/aehso/2009/02/23/internet-censorship-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-345007</link>
		<dc:creator>Fergus O'Rourke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xlml.com/aehso/?p=494#comment-345007</guid>
		<description>This statement:

&quot;...Eircom will not oppose any court application, meaning that the orders will be automatically granted&quot;

is not accurate.

The owners of the websites will have to be given notice of the applications, and even if they fail to oppose them, the court itself does have a discretion not to grant them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This statement:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;Eircom will not oppose any court application, meaning that the orders will be automatically granted&#8221;</p>
<p>is not accurate.</p>
<p>The owners of the websites will have to be given notice of the applications, and even if they fail to oppose them, the court itself does have a discretion not to grant them.</p>
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